Relationships and the Saturn Return

Charles W. Hawthorne – ‘Young Man and Woman’ 1914 {{PD}}

I’ve had a pair of comments/ questions from the lovely Nina; I’ll put the bodies of both messages below, then my own commentary.

Hi! My first Saturn return is coming up at the end of this year. I have this feeling that someone who I had a brief, but intense karmic relationship with ten years ago will be a part of my life again during this time. Our past encounter ultimately ended badly and I don’t feel like I’ve ever really had closure, nor has my attraction to this person ceased, despite being in a six year relationship with a different person (which recently ended).

My question is not “is this person my soul mate” or “will I end up with this person?” (I read the guidelines for submitting questions!) What I’m wondering is, what is your take on this? My intuition is telling me that we will date during this time and that it would bring us each closure and immense healing. I have a bit of astrology knowledge and I think we have some aspects that support this. But, I haven’t been able to find anything online about the idea of love or relationships specifically during a Saturn return. I am so curious for the take of an objective, experienced astrologer on this!

And then this:

Hi, it’s Nina, I submitted a question a few days ago involving love/relationship during a Saturn return.

As I have been thinking my question over, wondering if you’ll find the topic interesting, wondering if I explained myself well enough, I realized that I may have glossed over a relevant piece of information in pursuit of being concise.

So, I explained how I had a tumultuous “relationship” (we were never officially dating, but fought intensely and hooked up) with person A. This took place during our freshman year of college, specifically October 2007 through April 2008. It ended when he simultaneously stopped talking to me and started dating a close friend of mine the day after we had sex for the first time.

Fast forward about four years and I start my first real relationship with person B, who had become my best friend after meeting at the same college freshman year. He is also a best friend of person A. This is the relationship I was in for nearly six years. Person B had been secretly harboring feelings for me since the first time we met. our relationship was healthy for about a year and then turned sour for the remainder. We’ve recently given ourselves space and there is a significant part of me that hopes he will be the person I end up with, once we have each had time to grow as individuals. (That is to say, I hold out hope that we may start a new relationship after our Saturn return.)

We also make music together as our profession, so we are still very much a part of each others’ life. (In fact, we still live together! But, we are going to change this this summer or fall.)

So, the question I asked you in the first place was what are your thoughts on a relationship during a Saturn return. I want to date person A during my Saturn return, and then start a new and hopefully permanent relationship with Person B. It occurred to me that this love triangle was almost certainly important context for my question.

(It maybe be relevant to mention that I have no intent to hurt Person B by dating Person A. It was a mutual decision for Person B and I to break up, but it was he who was not sure if he was attracted to/loved me anymore. I don’t know if Person B would necessarily know about my potential relationship with Person A. But, I wanted to make sure to explicitly state that this is not any sort of revenge or malicious intent. I never got over Person A and I feel overwhelming drawn to him. (And, yes–I noticed out Black Moon Lilith/Venus conjunction!))

You seem to be something of an expert in dissecting relationships via astrology. And, I think love triangles might be something of an intriguing topic to people? I do apologize for submitting my question in such a fragmented way.

Hi Nina,

Since material presented on this blog is centered in analysis that can be useful to others, I’ll be addressing your first issue concerning the implications of dating during the Saturn Return, as that’s a good subject that I’ve never seen addressed myself. Then I’ll talk briefly about the more personal issues for you.

The Saturn Return, for those who are not aware of this, occurs at roughly (dependent on the retro-direct cycle at the time of birth) 29.5 years, when the planet returns to its position at birth. Leading up to the first Return we have three bursts of major, hard contact between transiting and natal Saturn, a square at approximately 7 years old (considered ‘The Age of Reason’, when the individual first sees their responsibility for their own behavior and becomes aware of potential consequences), an opposition at 14 (another turning point, one where the first big steps away from childhood are taken), and at 21 (a complete coming-of-age that leaves the individual solely responsible for her or his own life and actions). Each of these hard contacts of transiting to natal Saturn typically brings more responsibility, and in a certain way, more freedom, as the individual is asked to take on more, to follow the rules, and thereby gain autonomy and reach a new stage of maturity.

But, by the time the Return arrives, we’ve been out in the world for awhile. We feel we’ve got something of a handle on things, that we understand how the world works, and that we’ve found at least some avenues of expression and ways of creating security. As Saturn nears its natal position, though, we begin to Self-assess, to consider what it is that we’ve actually built. This period of consideration occurs even in those who have non-material goals, or an outlook that isn’t trained on establishing authority, joining an established hierarchy, or meeting professional benchmarks. It’s about seeing how far you’ve come, and judging that progress by your own particular standards–and for some, especially those who see themselves as rootless, as craving the unconventional experience, it may be the revelation that they have goals at all, ones they’ve never admitted even to themselves.

If you’ve been telling yourself you want one thing out of life, but actually want another, you’ll realize it now. Stability may become more important to you, as may a sense of ‘moving up’ or ‘moving on’, especially if there are personal milestones you’ve always assumed you’d meet, such as getting married, having children, or attaining a particular professional status. We judge our own life accomplishments at the Return for what they may mean in a larger sense; what have we contributed to society, and what do we want to contribute in the future? What do we want our roles to be? How do we want to make our mark, be remembered, have an impact?

So, we can see that this is an appropriately Self-focused period, one where we are taking our own measure, assessing just how, where, and how well we fit into the social order–and that means that dating at this time won’t really be about the other person, but about fulfilling our own needs. That sounds harsh, and it’s not like we can’t fall in love at this time; it’s just that we are much more likely to spend our time seeking partners or others who will help us fulfill our own aims. The more conscious we are of those aims, of course, the more deliberate our decisions, and the more likely we are to fulfill our Saturnian needs for status, security, and order (and we all have these, know it or not).

Dating during this period can take on a certain quality of mission, of seriousness of purpose–and that almost always translates into establishing a more permanent situation either professionally or personally, through marriage or partnership of some kind, even if that commitment is to oneself, initiating a kind of marriage to an achievement or goal. Now, be aware, all this usually happens without excessive conscious intent; we don’t realize, necessarily, that we’re assessing our lives, judging our choices up to now (though we may become overwhelmingly aware of our own discontent), but we are, and that means that dating takes on an almost predatory tone: we are looking for a mate, or we are looking to meet certain life goals such as those involving reproduction and the parental experience–and if we’re not, we’re usually bent on throwing our energy into some other area of accomplishment–and so not dating at all.

I hope that sets the Saturn Return stage for dating–it’s not to be taken lightly, in fact, you can’t take it lightly, even when you believe you can, as there’s a part of you that will persistently wonder where it’s all leading. So now, Nina, you must be wondering what I’ll say about your situation?

Dear Nina, You may be very disappointed with what I have to say here, and I apologize for that. I want to offer you the same feedback I would offer any client who provided me with the details you’ve supplied–and please forgive me if I’ve misunderstood what you’ve conveyed, but you are speaking as if you have the ultimate say in having a relationship with either of these men–but you yourself say that each has broken things off, implying the break wasn’t in your hands.

I also want to ask you this: if you were Person B, how would you feel if your prospective partner wanted to date someone else (your best friend!) but then had plans to ‘settle down’ with you after? I know you have no intention of hurting either man–that’s absolutely not in question–but I do think you’re feeling a kind of Saturn pressure, and that it may be overpowering your respect for the feelings of these men, both of whom have created distance that they may or may not want to continue.

So I would counsel that you get clear both on what you actually want, and how much of creating that is actually within your power (sometimes, all you can do is know what you want, and offer yourself). As I’m sure you’re aware, your Saturn Return hasn’t actually kicked in yet–doesn’t even begin to enter orb until this November–so you may be anticipating something before you really know how it feels or will manifest. Your current focus on Saturn, though, may be a manifestation of your Solar Arc Sun within orb of conjoining your natal Saturn–in essence creating all the same considerations that the Saturn Return brings. Add to that the SA Sun is also conjoined natal Uranus, ruler of the Whole Sign 12th, and you may find the unconscious is at the steering wheel, no matter how much you try to be conscious of your choices. The effect may be you are driven, in any number of ways (some of which you will feel are Karmic or fated–such is the influence of the 12th), with the actual results only visible roughly two years down the road. With so much on your own plate, the astrology of interaction with either of these men is a moot point, at least until you sort out your own wants and intentions definitively, and taking into account the wants and wishes of these men, as well. And though you didn’t ask, with transiting Saturn in your 10th, it’s no wonder you’re focused on your status–but rather than in relationship, the place to put your effort might be the career, as this could be a high point period, if approached with maximum dedication.

Wishing you all the best,

jd

See more on personal dedication of energy, and relationships, here–

And more on relationship interaction is available here–

You might like this ebook on Saturn, too–(not by me, but by the lovely Wisestars)

 

 

 

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Being in Love: Ladies, Are You An Annie Oakley or A Calamity Jane?

Calamity Jane 2For those unfamiliar with the North American West and its history, Calamity Jane (left) and Annie Oakley (below) are two women who left a mark on the Collective consciousness through their unusual talents and choices. At a time when women were typically relegated to roles either as an accessory (the upper classes) or of toil (the lower), these two carved places for themselves in male-dominated areas of accomplishment. Both were crack shots who largely made their living from their ability with firearms; both dressed unconventionally; both were celebrities in their own lifetimes–but that’s where the similarities end. The two were radically different in how they conducted themselves, and in their relationships–and this is what we must look at if we’re to sort those of us who are ‘Annies’ from those who are ‘Janes.’Annie Oakley 2

Now, there’s nothing wrong with being a ‘Jane’ or an ‘Annie’; this is more about assessing essential approaches to life and relationships that we may mistake as freeing when they’re actually undermining to our intentions. This is the real difference between the historical characters: Annie turned her unconventional inclinations into a long, productive, and impressive show business career that demanded discipline and persistence and may have required a bit of an emotional straightjacket; Jane let her inclinations and emotions overwhelm her, leading to outstanding instances of bravery and compassion (likely flowing from that spirit of independence and emotional exuberance), interspersed with excessive, debilitating drinking and confrontational anger (expressed through words, dress, and all manner of Self-sabotage). Astrologically it might initially appear to be a stark Saturn v. Uranus quandary in the natal chart, and this does fit for both these women, but I would also include a look at Chiron and Neptune, specifically, as they apply to hurt that may be acted out, and the factor of illusion as it served or ruined the reputation and injured or benefitted the individual (as well as the obvious factor of escape via substance abuse).

Annie Oakley (13 August 1860 no time known Darke County, Ohio) learned to shoot young, in order to supplement the family income by hunting and selling game, and she was so successful that she paid off her mother’s mortage by the time she was 15. Frank Butler, frontiersman, showman, and entrepreneur, was with a troupe of traveling marksmen who challenged the local talent as part of the show; Annie took the challenge, and beat him, hitting 25 out of 25, while Frank only hit 24. Annie is throughout her life described as small, serious, tidy, self-contained, calm, modest, and appealing–Frank fell in love immediately, and the two married and traveled, performing trick shooting with various groups, and finally with a circus, which lasted for a year. Then they joined Buffalo Bill’s Wild West Show, the top show of its kind, and traveled North America and Europe for 16 years. They had no children, but they did have a beloved dog, Dave, that allowed Annie to shoot an apple from his head as part of the act. During both the Spanish-American War and World War 1, Annie offered to recruit and train a unit of female marksmen–and both times the government declined the offer. The after-effects of several train and automobile accidents finally caught up with Annie, and she died in 1926, with Frank refusing to eat after her death; he died 18 days later.

Annie has a strong chart, one that may have prompted her to choose her course early and stick with it. She has a Leo Sun conjunct Saturn, perfect for a serious showperson in a line that requires strict control and discipline–certainly, she embodied this configuration. The Sun is opposed Chiron, suggesting that she may have chosen very early to reject the idea of herself as wounded, or a victim, even though her early life was tough in some respects. Chiron is sextile Pallas–healing through use and development of skills–and sesquiquadrate Vesta–perhaps showing some discomfort with the unusual home situation for the times (always traveling, no children) and the unconventional image she presented. Her Sun is also trine Pallas–she was the epitome of the competent, adept warrior–and quincunx retro Mars–accomodating the Self to a more masculine approach, adopting firearms–and this suggests she could’ve been intimidated by them at first–she wouldn’t be the only person to have become very competent in an effort to overcome a fear. Sun and Saturn are quincunx Neptune–implying she may have had to adjust her dreams and fantasies to the reality with which she was presented; and yet Neptune conjuncts Sedna, sesquiquadrates Mercury, and squares Juno, again echoing some discomfort with the image presented, with what she was communicating, and there is the notion that, in fact, rather than having to adjust her dreams, she didn’t even know what they were! Perhaps they were suppressed so thoroughly (Saturn–through a sense of duty and necessity) that they never even broke through to consciousness (Neptune).

All this says that Annie was an almost archetypal incarnation of Pallas (in Aries) and Saturn energies, and that she both rejected (the negative) and raised to a high skill level (the positive) her Chiron attributes; Neptune shows as a repository for all she didn’t connect to, and yet she may have also served as a screen upon which Collective fantasies of an ideal female of the frontier were projected. This is in sharp contrast to Jane, about whom we’ll talk in part two, which will also include a quiz that will help you decide if you’re a Jane or an Annie, and what this might mean for your love life.

Photos are historical and widely available on the net.